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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Polyamory&#8221;: What&#8217;s IN and What&#8217;s OUT?</title>
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		<title>By: Natja</title>
		<link>http://www.lovemore.com/poly/polyamory-whats-in-and-whats-out/#comment-349</link>
		<dc:creator>Natja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 10:33:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lovemore.com/blog/?p=1487#comment-349</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes Dawn, I don&#039;t like the barriers of couple-centric forms of Poly and personally do not want to conduct my relationships like that, but I believe all forms of Poly should be respected as long as everyone is on the same page and in agreement.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Dawn, I don&#8217;t like the barriers of couple-centric forms of Poly and personally do not want to conduct my relationships like that, but I believe all forms of Poly should be respected as long as everyone is on the same page and in agreement.</p>
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		<title>By: Dawn</title>
		<link>http://www.lovemore.com/poly/polyamory-whats-in-and-whats-out/#comment-348</link>
		<dc:creator>Dawn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 03:24:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lovemore.com/blog/?p=1487#comment-348</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Natja:  OK, I think what you are saying is that you are a believer in NO hierarchies, even those chosen by the participants? You&#039;d prefer to see an end to polyamory of the sort that includes hierarchies, whether imposed by others, or even if self-imposed.  Is that a correct restatement?

I originally come from a dyadic model (since I am married and now separated). but now I&#039;m more like a &quot;poly single&quot; in some ways. My &quot;primary partnership&quot; is with myself now. I am the final arbiter of what sorts of agreements I&#039;ll make, and with whom.

I know what you mean about &quot;protecting the dyad&quot; -- that&#039;s a common way for people to do &#039;couple-centric&quot; non-monogamy, and I definitely practiced that in the past. But that&#039;s not what I&#039;m talking about here. I&#039;m discussing that keeping one&#039;s agreements -- to self, to partner/s, to friends, family, work, etc.. -- is supportive of relationships of all sorts. Being careful with one&#039;s word is important, even if the agreements aren&#039;t written or codified.

To bring it back to this particular post here, I strongly believe that ALL sorts of polyamory (and ethical non-monogamy) should be allowed to exist and be practiced without persecution, so long as people are in agreement with each other about the basis for their relationships, and are being honest and ethical in how they conduct those relationships. Whether or not you and I would want to be in relationship with each other doesn&#039;t affect whether I think we should both get to practice our respective relationships hassle-free. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Natja:  OK, I think what you are saying is that you are a believer in NO hierarchies, even those chosen by the participants? You&#8217;d prefer to see an end to polyamory of the sort that includes hierarchies, whether imposed by others, or even if self-imposed.  Is that a correct restatement?</p>
<p>I originally come from a dyadic model (since I am married and now separated). but now I&#8217;m more like a &#8220;poly single&#8221; in some ways. My &#8220;primary partnership&#8221; is with myself now. I am the final arbiter of what sorts of agreements I&#8217;ll make, and with whom.</p>
<p>I know what you mean about &#8220;protecting the dyad&#8221; &#8212; that&#8217;s a common way for people to do &#8216;couple-centric&#8221; non-monogamy, and I definitely practiced that in the past. But that&#8217;s not what I&#8217;m talking about here. I&#8217;m discussing that keeping one&#8217;s agreements &#8212; to self, to partner/s, to friends, family, work, etc.. &#8212; is supportive of relationships of all sorts. Being careful with one&#8217;s word is important, even if the agreements aren&#8217;t written or codified.</p>
<p>To bring it back to this particular post here, I strongly believe that ALL sorts of polyamory (and ethical non-monogamy) should be allowed to exist and be practiced without persecution, so long as people are in agreement with each other about the basis for their relationships, and are being honest and ethical in how they conduct those relationships. Whether or not you and I would want to be in relationship with each other doesn&#8217;t affect whether I think we should both get to practice our respective relationships hassle-free. <img src='http://www.lovemore.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Natja</title>
		<link>http://www.lovemore.com/poly/polyamory-whats-in-and-whats-out/#comment-347</link>
		<dc:creator>Natja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 12:26:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lovemore.com/blog/?p=1487#comment-347</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t know Dawn, you know, on one hand I am a realist, we all live in a dyadic supporting environment and most people can count themselves as pretty lucky if they even find one person who they feel they want to spend the rest of their lives with and so, why  not follow the current framework?  
As an unmarried person I am pretty sensitive to this as I am very personally aware of the &#039;otherness&#039; that can arise from being outside this cultural framework and cannot help but think that the framework does hinder the full and complete giving of love if one is always aware of protecting the dyad. 
I do have strong opinions and know how I want &#039;my&#039; polyamory to be practised and it is not for everyone but I personally would like to see an end to Polyamory with self and outside imposed hierarchies like wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/husband/primary/secondary.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know Dawn, you know, on one hand I am a realist, we all live in a dyadic supporting environment and most people can count themselves as pretty lucky if they even find one person who they feel they want to spend the rest of their lives with and so, why  not follow the current framework?<br />
As an unmarried person I am pretty sensitive to this as I am very personally aware of the &#8216;otherness&#8217; that can arise from being outside this cultural framework and cannot help but think that the framework does hinder the full and complete giving of love if one is always aware of protecting the dyad.<br />
I do have strong opinions and know how I want &#8216;my&#8217; polyamory to be practised and it is not for everyone but I personally would like to see an end to Polyamory with self and outside imposed hierarchies like wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/husband/primary/secondary.</p>
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		<title>By: Dawn</title>
		<link>http://www.lovemore.com/poly/polyamory-whats-in-and-whats-out/#comment-346</link>
		<dc:creator>Dawn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lovemore.com/blog/?p=1487#comment-346</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Natja:  Looks like both your comments eventually came through... and eventually I even saw them!  sorry for the delay!

I understand your trepidation about &quot;imposing certain restraints&quot; and the effect that can have on love.  For me, the issue of &quot;consent&quot; is key. I&#039;ve been writing about Agreements in my blog (though I&#039;ve been on hiatus on that topic for a few months), and one of the key points is that for it to be an Agreement, both partners need to AGREE. I find that people who want to make &quot;rules&quot; that are inflexible, and impose them (rather than collaboratively agree upon them), tend to create an atmosphere of distrust, which as you have alluded to, is pretty antithetical to love.

Agreements don&#039;t have to be rigid rules however; they CAN be a co-created structure for success, so long as both parties freely consent. We do this all the time in &quot;the outside world,&quot; for instance when we agree to show up to work every weekday at 9, and our employer agrees to pay us every 2 weeks. Agreements between lovers can be similar, in that they can help to codify roles, responses to repeated situations, and help ensure that both parties are using the same definitions. As long as they remain &quot;at will,&quot; are freely entered-into, and can be renegotiated (at some interval agreed upon by the &quot;signatories&quot;) then they can be used to build a sense of safety that will help *foster* love.

How does that compare with your conversation in your blog? (http://natjasnatterings.blogspot.com/2012/01/is-this-monogamish-thing-polyamory.html) Does that resonate with what you and others discussed there?

Best wishes!  ~Dawn]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Natja:  Looks like both your comments eventually came through&#8230; and eventually I even saw them!  sorry for the delay!</p>
<p>I understand your trepidation about &#8220;imposing certain restraints&#8221; and the effect that can have on love.  For me, the issue of &#8220;consent&#8221; is key. I&#8217;ve been writing about Agreements in my blog (though I&#8217;ve been on hiatus on that topic for a few months), and one of the key points is that for it to be an Agreement, both partners need to AGREE. I find that people who want to make &#8220;rules&#8221; that are inflexible, and impose them (rather than collaboratively agree upon them), tend to create an atmosphere of distrust, which as you have alluded to, is pretty antithetical to love.</p>
<p>Agreements don&#8217;t have to be rigid rules however; they CAN be a co-created structure for success, so long as both parties freely consent. We do this all the time in &#8220;the outside world,&#8221; for instance when we agree to show up to work every weekday at 9, and our employer agrees to pay us every 2 weeks. Agreements between lovers can be similar, in that they can help to codify roles, responses to repeated situations, and help ensure that both parties are using the same definitions. As long as they remain &#8220;at will,&#8221; are freely entered-into, and can be renegotiated (at some interval agreed upon by the &#8220;signatories&#8221;) then they can be used to build a sense of safety that will help *foster* love.</p>
<p>How does that compare with your conversation in your blog? (<a href="http://natjasnatterings.blogspot.com/2012/01/is-this-monogamish-thing-polyamory.html" rel="nofollow">http://natjasnatterings.blogspot.com/2012/01/is-this-monogamish-thing-polyamory.html</a>) Does that resonate with what you and others discussed there?</p>
<p>Best wishes!  ~Dawn</p>
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		<title>By: Dawn &#38; other poly activists on radio 1/21 @10pm Pacific &#8212; Uncharted Love</title>
		<link>http://www.lovemore.com/poly/polyamory-whats-in-and-whats-out/#comment-345</link>
		<dc:creator>Dawn &#38; other poly activists on radio 1/21 @10pm Pacific &#8212; Uncharted Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jan 2012 22:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lovemore.com/blog/?p=1487#comment-345</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] my essay &#8220;Polyamory: What&#8217;s IN and What&#8217;s OUT,&#8221; reprinted at Loving More: http://www.lovemore.com/blog/?p=1487 * Find me on Facebook:  facebook.com/LoveOTB * On WordPress: blog.unchartedlove.com * Questions? [...] ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] my essay &#8220;Polyamory: What&#8217;s IN and What&#8217;s OUT,&#8221; reprinted at Loving More: <a href="http://www.lovemore.com/blog/?p=1487" rel="nofollow">http://www.lovemore.com/blog/?p=1487</a> * Find me on Facebook:  facebook.com/LoveOTB * On WordPress: blog.unchartedlove.com * Questions? [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Transparency and Trepidation &#8212; Uncharted Love</title>
		<link>http://www.lovemore.com/poly/polyamory-whats-in-and-whats-out/#comment-344</link>
		<dc:creator>Transparency and Trepidation &#8212; Uncharted Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 23:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lovemore.com/blog/?p=1487#comment-344</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] week, my piece on Polyamory: What&#8217;s IN and What&#8217;s OUT was re-printed over at the Loving More Magazine. In it, I talk about what I consider to be the truly foundational components of polyamory: [...] ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] week, my piece on Polyamory: What&#8217;s IN and What&#8217;s OUT was re-printed over at the Loving More Magazine. In it, I talk about what I consider to be the truly foundational components of polyamory: [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Jasper Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.lovemore.com/poly/polyamory-whats-in-and-whats-out/#comment-343</link>
		<dc:creator>Jasper Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jan 2012 21:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lovemore.com/blog/?p=1487#comment-343</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good post, I&#039;ve also done an article with interviews from poly people to show what their lives are like, if you have a few spare minutes then please read! 
http://jaspertaylormedia.wordpress.com/2012/01/11/the-ins-and-outs-of-polyamory/#comments]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post, I&#8217;ve also done an article with interviews from poly people to show what their lives are like, if you have a few spare minutes then please read!<br />
<a href="http://jaspertaylormedia.wordpress.com/2012/01/11/the-ins-and-outs-of-polyamory/#comments" rel="nofollow">http://jaspertaylormedia.wordpress.com/2012/01/11/the-ins-and-outs-of-polyamory/#comments</a></p>
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		<title>By: Natja</title>
		<link>http://www.lovemore.com/poly/polyamory-whats-in-and-whats-out/#comment-342</link>
		<dc:creator>Natja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:21:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lovemore.com/blog/?p=1487#comment-342</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you.

I wrote a reply before but it must have been lost so anyway, I just wanted to say I have been debating on my blog the use of defining Polyamory and whether limits in Polyamory restrict our ability to love!

Thank you again for posting, you have given me a lot to think about.
Natja]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you.</p>
<p>I wrote a reply before but it must have been lost so anyway, I just wanted to say I have been debating on my blog the use of defining Polyamory and whether limits in Polyamory restrict our ability to love!</p>
<p>Thank you again for posting, you have given me a lot to think about.<br />
Natja</p>
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		<title>By: Dawn Davidson (@UnchartedLove)</title>
		<link>http://www.lovemore.com/poly/polyamory-whats-in-and-whats-out/#comment-341</link>
		<dc:creator>Dawn Davidson (@UnchartedLove)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2012 23:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lovemore.com/blog/?p=1487#comment-341</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A footnote off of the &quot;Key Point&quot; of &quot;Relationships&quot;:

…………………………………………….

† Further discussion on the PLN list involved the question of how to distinguish familial relationships from polyamory. After all, they’re certainly (or they should be!) “loving” relationships amongst multiple people. No one asks the older brother to break up with his sister when a third child comes along, nor do parents need to end their relationship with their first-born to accommodate her brother.  So why wouldn’t these “count” as polyamorous? The general assumption of most polyamorous people seems to be that we’re talking about adult romantic/sexual relationships, not, for instance, your familial relationship with your children or your grandparents, nor your platonic relationship between you and your aunt, or you and your cousins. “Kissing cousins” could be involved in a polyamorous relationship, though, if there were three or more of them! They wouldn’t be polyamorous just because they’re cousins; it would take more than a platonic peck to move the relationship over into potentially polyamorous territory.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A footnote off of the &#8220;Key Point&#8221; of &#8220;Relationships&#8221;:</p>
<p>…………………………………………….</p>
<p>† Further discussion on the PLN list involved the question of how to distinguish familial relationships from polyamory. After all, they’re certainly (or they should be!) “loving” relationships amongst multiple people. No one asks the older brother to break up with his sister when a third child comes along, nor do parents need to end their relationship with their first-born to accommodate her brother.  So why wouldn’t these “count” as polyamorous? The general assumption of most polyamorous people seems to be that we’re talking about adult romantic/sexual relationships, not, for instance, your familial relationship with your children or your grandparents, nor your platonic relationship between you and your aunt, or you and your cousins. “Kissing cousins” could be involved in a polyamorous relationship, though, if there were three or more of them! They wouldn’t be polyamorous just because they’re cousins; it would take more than a platonic peck to move the relationship over into potentially polyamorous territory.</p>
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		<title>By: Natja</title>
		<link>http://www.lovemore.com/poly/polyamory-whats-in-and-whats-out/#comment-340</link>
		<dc:creator>Natja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lovemore.com/blog/?p=1487#comment-340</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting and agreed, mostly, since I question (from my own pov) the integrity of a loving relationship when it is under certain restraints.  For example, veto power, no emotional attachments but only sex etc.  I realise that my viewpoint is coloured by my anti-hierarchical beliefs and not everyone will agree but I still find it hard to reconcile &#039;Loving&#039; whilst imposing limits.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting and agreed, mostly, since I question (from my own pov) the integrity of a loving relationship when it is under certain restraints.  For example, veto power, no emotional attachments but only sex etc.  I realise that my viewpoint is coloured by my anti-hierarchical beliefs and not everyone will agree but I still find it hard to reconcile &#8216;Loving&#8217; whilst imposing limits.</p>
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